current forum:Winnipeg Urban Issues & Provincial Affairs

[zander]

I'm sure that a developer would offer HBC a pretty sweet deal to remain in the lower three levels (unless they received a good offer from someone else). Redeveloping that building would be considerably harder than it has already proven to be if it were left completely vacant.

Very true. If a developer starts off with say four of the seven floors filled (three HBC and one MLC), it would be a lot easier to fill the rest.

One of the floors would make a great home for the U of W Continuing Education program. It's close to the campus and offers considerable parking (in off-hours) and transit access too. And classrooms would fit just fine on that massive floorplate.

[sputnik]

Very true. If a developer starts off with say four of the seven floors filled (three HBC and one MLC), it would be a lot easier to fill the rest.

I think the hardest part will be convincing a potential developer that The Bay is a stable tenant worthy of the massive investment required to retrofit the building.

I also wonder how much per sq ft The Bay is willing to pay to remain in the building and how that ties into the cost of purchase in renovation of the space in question for the developer.

[zander]

^ I don't think the investment will be quite that massive, depending on the tenants of course. The building systems are all in relatively good shape from what I understand, as is the envelope.

And once HBC clears out, the floors are basically blank slates for redevelopment. Very little teardown required.

As for the stability of HBC, that's another story, but I trust the financiers will know more about that than either of us.

[cancelbot]

As for the stability of HBC, that's another story, but I trust the financiers will know more about that than either of us.

I suspect The Bay's continued presence will have a lot to do with how the chain as a whole does. Putting some offices on the upper levels will hopefully prevent a repeat of the Eaton's scenario, though - if half the building is good, solid Class B office space, then if The Bay goes under it shouldn't be too hard to redevelop the rest.

If there weren't any other tenants and The Bay went under, it would be tough to resist the temptation (going on this city's track record) to demolish it.

[bgilchrist001]

^ But if the MLC is better able to fulfill its mandate by locating at The Bay, then what's the rationale for criticizing such a decision?

For instance, a well-appointed, centrally located, high-profile office may assist in building the corporate profile and therefore aid MLC in attracting and retaining personnel. And if you discount this theory, then ask yourself why so many firms (private and public) choose to locate in prestigious office towers instead of industrial strip malls in Transcona.

More importantly, what if the bang for the buck is better at The Bay? What if the rate at their existing strip mall office is comparable to what they'd pay at The Bay? What if their existing site is no longer big enough to accommodate them?

There are a lot of considerations here, and it is simplistic to reduce this to "MLC spending=taxpayer money=bad".

Oh, I'm not suggesting that there is a problem with relocating to the Bay.

I just think that that any suggestion that it is taxpayer money or public funds and as a result the same level of scrutiny needs to be given to this as to direct government spending is incorrect.

[Eliz]

They've removed a makeup counter on the main floor of The Bay that reveals two of the original elevators, or so I thought. I looked for evidence of these elevators the second floor and see that at some point and time, they were completely removed - floors and ceilings redone, no shafts remain.

I looked it up because I was curious and found this amazing tidbit (pretty amazing to me anyway)

While it may be difficult to think of a building from 1926 as modern, consider some of the features of the Winnipeg store. There were a dozen elevators - arranged in two banks of six each, facing each other in a concave arrangement. Their lobbies were decorated with immense murals depicting scenes of the Company's early history by artists Adam Sheriff Scott and Edward Tappan Adney. Eight of the original elevators were subsequently removed, as was one of the murals, but the second mural - "The Pioneer" at Fort Garry, 1861 - remains to this day.

Pretty cool.

[heath]

The Shindico website has a listing for office space for lease, the top 4 floors of The Bay. The site says that HBC will be redeveloping the lower 3 floors as a flagship retail space at a cost of $20 million.

[sputnik]

The Shindico website has a listing for office space for lease, the top 4 floors of The Bay. The site says that HBC will be redeveloping the lower 3 floors as a flagship retail space at a cost of $20 million.

Is that even remotely recent?

The skyline picture in the ad doesnt even have the Hydro Building in it.

I know that a few years ago Shindico was working with The Bay to lease out some of their space, but I don't think anything ever became of it.

[justmythoughts]

So the Bay downtown will be reduce to only 3 floors? Too bad.

I got married in The Bay Downtown back in 1988.

[cancelbot]

So the Bay downtown will be reduce to only 3 floors? Too bad.

That's still more than enough space, IMO. I'd take a well-designed, well-stocked three-level Bay over what we have now any day.