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Winnipeg City Issues & Urban Affairs: Manitoba Hydro in big trouble

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  1.  
    Posted By: MR_Pointits over money
    What is?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMR_Point
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: grumpy old man
    Posted By: MR_Pointits over money
    What is?

    the fude my source says
  3.  
    Posted By: MR_Pointfude
    "feud"
    Posted By: MR_Pointits over money
    And sure it is. Between Doer and the Hydro Board money was sure to be an issue.
    • CommentAuthorDeanK
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
     
    "I'm not a union person, a welfare recipient or an elitist. I don't play hockey either... "

    so.. your not a Canadian then?????? :)
  5.  
    What??? Is it too late? Or those stupid long hours? The joke (partly) goes "the only thing that comes from (name a city) are hookers and hockey players"... The punchline: What position does she play"... Ba dump dum.
    • CommentAuthorDeanK
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
     
    yeah.. good joke
    :)
  7.  
    Zander, the idea that taxpayers in the province receive lower rates as a dividend and Hydro retaining control of their profits vs. a government raiding the profits to spend and waste on useless programs appeals to me.

    Now we as a society can be more responsible with the resource which would benefit the utility's profit line thereby giving us an even better dividend.

    But, you can argue that we should pay market rates and have the government raid the profits to spend on garbage like Spirited Energy or golden parachute retirement packages etc. Its just a different point of view.
    Thankful People: stefanp
  8.  
    Mr. Nobody- I think you have described exactly what is happening with Hydro today! We have the lowest Hydro rates! Is anyone complaining about our rates being too low??
    If our rates were tripled to bring them in line with California's rates, the debt would be retired within 4 years!

    Would anyone complain?? I do not think so! LOL
    •  
      CommentAuthorjim
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
     
    You should talk to people in Quebec and Ontario one of the reasons the mills in Kenora closed was because the hydro was more expensive then in Fort Francis. Where the power is self generated and cost controlled, As was said on another thread my bill in the Sioux has doubled in the last 4 yrs . If we can get it cheaper here so be it, the goverment should be legislated off the raiding of the funds made .

    The NDP historically have raided hydro for the balance of there bad budgets catering to the lazy don't want to work crowd that vote them in . We have allowed this to go on and it doesn't matter which party they are, really they are all the same promise no deliver.

    If we don't built this road for the east side we enslave the people there to the poverty that they have for good and we continue to pay every year for it . The road can go in the negative factors controlled and every one can be somewhat happy . Give the routine maintenance to the natives on the road suppliying some jobs and compensate them fairly for the right just like any white farmer would get on his land.
    But knowing they way the system works we won't we contiune to do the status qou .
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Mr. Nobody</cite>Zander, the idea that taxpayers in the province receive lower rates as a dividend and Hydro retaining control of their profits vs. a government raiding the profits to spend and waste on useless programs appeals to me. Now we as a society can be more responsible with the resource which would benefit the utility's profit line thereby giving us an even better dividend. But, you can argue that we should pay market rates and have the government raid the profits to spend on garbage like Spirited Energy or golden parachute retirement packages etc. Its just a different point of view.</blockquote><p>

    I can also argue that we should pay market rates and have a percentage of the profits transferred openly to fund valuable services like health care, education and necessary public infrastructure. This would allow public services to be kept at a high level while requiring fewer tax dollars or transfer payments. Not to mention that I can control my own energy use. If I want to pay less, there are any number of ways to do so. It isn't the same with provincial income taxes.<p>

    Or we could just continue to subsidize rates and encourage people to waste energy instead of exporting this valuable commodity. Your call. It's just a different point of view.<p>

    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: grumpy old man</cite>Possibly, but not under the NDP. Not ever under the NDP. The PCs maybe. In any event I agree with you 100% on this point.</blockquote><p>

    You're right, the NDP would never consider it. That is one of the things that really disappoints me about them. Unfortunately the issue just sets itself up for all sorts of crass political opportunitism as well. If the PC's actually moved to consider market rates, I can imagine what kind of grandstanding would go on...
  11.  
    Zander, one slight problem, your way has been proven it does not work....people milk the money out of the system, misspend it, waste it and the system doesn't work.

    ie ...postl making 400K a year and all his little dwarves giving themselves huge incomes, and yet the system is broken.

    At least my way, I get lower priced energy and the utility keeps control of it profits, hopefully to reinvest in itself through growth and or research.

    But if we do what you say, then I will get raped twice, once by the higher cost and the second time when the bureacrats take the profit and misuse it. Sorry dude, you may like the game, I don't.


    Whats wrong with having cheaper energy, why do we constantly look outside and say we have to do everything others do,

    Its renewable, its always there. If you want to ration it in some fashion, sure, why not...but please, stop this nonsense that you want it higher becasue other pay more for it, and leave the profits alone already.
    Thankful People: stefanp
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Mr. Nobody</cite>Zander, one slight problem, your way has been proven it does not work....people milk the money out of the system, misspend it, waste it and the system doesn't work.</blockquote><p>

    That's your bias speaking, and it's not necessarily reflected in reality. I think the model I've described makes perfect sense. We are all essentially milking the system right now and misspending the subsidies on wasted power.<p>

    <blockquote>At least my way, I get lower priced energy and the utility keeps control of it profits, hopefully to reinvest in itself through growth and or research.</blockquote><p>

    Your way subsidizes power (to what end exactly?) and encourages waste. Hydro doesn't benefit from the subsidy, nor does it have the incentive (or ability) to maximize export potential.<p>

    <blockquote>But if we do what you say, then I will get raped twice, once by the higher cost and the second time when the bureacrats take the profit and misuse it. Sorry dude, you may like the game, I don't.</blockquote><p>

    There's no game as far as I can see, just your own biases against the public sector.<p>

    <blockquote>Whats wrong with having cheaper energy, why do we constantly look outside and say we have to do everything others do. Its renewable, its always there. If you want to ration it in some fashion, sure, why not...but please, stop this nonsense that you want it higher becasue other pay more for it, and leave the profits alone already.</blockquote><p>

    The "nonsense" is in the belief that cheap energy is somehow our right. I think it makes perfect sense for us to pay the same rates as we can sell it for. Why waste it on cheap power here when a good Hydro export strategy could help lift the province out of "have-not" status.
    Thankful People: cherenkov
  13.  
    it is our right....we paid for it, we are entitled to it. I have nothing in common with Californians who have no hydro nor do I really care to get to their level of pricing.

    The notion that we paid taxes to develop something we can use for ourselves is opposite to building something so we can export. Which mandate is the reason Hydro was created ? Whats the ecological cost of chasing all these "big Deals" that will miraculously make us an Alberta. ( not ).

    You seem to like this idea that people should be hammered to support your lifestyle or what you think should be the path we take. So far, hydro has benefitted the taxpayers of this province in more then one way. Don't try and fix what ain't broken, especially if you raid the profits then somehow refocus the attention on taxpayers.

    You may find yourself in another Ethanol quagmire.....while we wait for switchgrass.

    Alot of people don't work for government, they don't have the parachutes civil servants have. When costs go up, they are in danger of losing their livelihood. When rates go up, they spend less. If you gaurantee everyone their job, benefits, sick days, retirement package....., then by all means , raise the rates.
    Thankful People: stefanp
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Mr. Nobody</cite>it is our right....we paid for it, we are entitled to it. I have nothing in common with Californians who have no hydro nor do I really care to get to their level of pricing. The notion that we paid taxes to develop something we can use for ourselves is opposite to building something so we can export. Which mandate is the reason Hydro was created ? Whats the ecological cost of chasing all these "big Deals" that will miraculously make us an Alberta. ( not ).</blockquote><p>

    Depends on what you want. Would you like to have nice low rates? Or would you rather pay market rates, maximize exports and see Hydro profits used to keep taxes low, reduce the need for transfer payments and make our economy more competitive with our neighbours?<p>

    I know what makes more sense to me.<p>

    <blockquote>You seem to like this idea that people should be hammered to support your lifestyle or what you think should be the path we take. So far, hydro has benefitted the taxpayers of this province in more then one way. Don't try and fix what ain't broken, especially if you raid the profits then somehow refocus the attention on taxpayers.</blockquote><p>

    When did I say anything about my lifestyle? I didn't. And this isn't about me.<p>

    <blockquote>Alot of people don't work for government, they don't have the parachutes civil servants have. When costs go up, they are in danger of losing their livelihood. When rates go up, they spend less. If you gaurantee everyone their job, benefits, sick days, retirement package....., then by all means , raise the rates.</blockquote><p>

    Sorry, I don't follow that argument. Are you trying to tell me that low rates are all that keep people from losing their livelihood? I don't think so.<p>

    Let me put it to you this way. Would you rather see the provincial treasury boosted from income taxes or from Hydro profits?<p>
    • CommentAuthorumcrouc0
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
     
    If you keep a sensible expansion plan going you can keep rates down and keep increasing profits to lower taxes as well. But it would take a lot of increased power sales to actually do much to taxes.

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