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Winnipeg City Issues & Urban Affairs: Jane you ignorant slut... The Conservatives targeting The Liberals. Let the games begin...

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  1.  
    Posted By: Jimmytufish
    Posted By: umcrouc0

    A low percentage of Ontario's electricity comes from fossil fuels. It's mainly nuclear and hydro so they aren't taxed. They are also already planning to replace their emitting forms with cleaner energy. Where are these ridiculous claims about Ontario getting screwed coming from?

    Ontario's five generating stations that run on fossil fuels produced just over 28 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions last year.

    As a result, Dion's scheme would slap a whopping tax of $1.1 billion just on those five power stations, increasing the cost of operating them by a staggering 80% or more.

    As the spokesman for Ontario Power says, someone would have to pay.

    http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2008/06/24/5968491-sun.php


    THose plants are being phased out.....so any increase would be very temporary.
  2.  
    Qutoe "Posted By: Jimmytufish
    Posted By: Munchkinguy
    Dion is inviting Harper to an "adult debate".
    With the Liberal track record as it's been, Dion would probably not show up.
    Heh, true enough. But with his track record, Harper would send Van Loan and Baird in his place. ;)"

    And Van Loan and Baird would just proceed to make fun of his french accent, probably curse a little bit, definately some name calling and generally never discuss anything....
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: benevolentspaceman</cite><blockquote><cite>Posted By: Jimmytufish</cite><blockquote><cite>Posted By: umcrouc0</cite>

    A low percentage of Ontario's electricity comes from fossil fuels. It's mainly nuclear and hydro so they aren't taxed. They are also already planning to replace their emitting forms with cleaner energy. Where are these ridiculous claims about Ontario getting screwed coming from?</blockquote>
    Ontario's five generating stations that run on fossil fuels produced just over 28 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions last year.

    As a result, Dion's scheme would slap a whopping tax of $1.1 billion just on those five power stations, increasing the cost of operating them by a staggering 80% or more.

    As the spokesman for Ontario Power says, someone would have to pay.

    http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2008/06/24/5968491-sun.php</blockquote>

    THose plants are being phased out.....so any increase would be very temporary.</blockquote><p>

    And the proposed carbon tax provides even more incentive to phase them out. It will give Ontario voters an extra push to make sure McGuinty sticks to his election promise this time.
  4.  
    Ya right. Pay now and we'll talk about phasing out later eh?

    "Everyone loves carbon taxes, until they have to pay them."

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080624.COWENT24/TPStory/National/columnists

    "A new poll says a whopping 59 per cent of British Columbians now oppose the tax - and it hasn't even kicked in yet."
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Jimmytufish</cite>Ya right. Pay now and we'll talk about phasing out later eh?</blockquote><p>

    The plants are already being phased out. Ontario is moving to expand the Darlington nuclear plant and is enhancing their DSM (demand-side management) programs. And maybe we'll see that east-west grid built sometime soon. :)<p>

    <blockquote>"Everyone loves carbon taxes, until they have to pay them." "A new poll says a whopping 59 per cent of British Columbians now oppose the tax - and it hasn't even kicked in yet."</blockquote><p>

    I guess the BC NDP's fearmongering has worked. What's their alternative proposal? Or are they just blowing hot air like the federal Cons? ;)
    • CommentAuthorDeanK
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008
     
    "And maybe we'll see that east-west grid built sometime soon. :)"

    Isn't that a 5 or 10 year project?. once they get started that is
    Thankful People: Jimmytufish
  7.  
    What is the date for new plants or a new grid to be on-line? Ten...fifteen years from now?

    And like I said..."Everyone loves carbon taxes, until they have to pay them." The people in B.C. will be paying them, not just talking about them. Big, big difference.
  8.  
    Great minds think alike eh Dean? :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Jimmytufish</cite>And like I said..."Everyone loves carbon taxes, until they have to pay them." The people in B.C. will be paying them, not just talking about them. Big, big difference.</blockquote><p>

    And like I said, where's the alternative? Everybody likes to complain, but I have yet to see some better suggestions. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: DeanK</cite>Isn't that a 5 or 10 year project?. once they get started that is</blockquote><p>

    Best to get started now then. :)
  11.  
    Posted By: benevolentspacemanTHose plants are being phased out.....so any increase would be very temporary.
    Some are saying 5 - 10 years. I'd be willing to bet beaucoup bucks that full transition won't happen for many more years...
  12.  
    From the Conservative's website:

    *Introduced a balanced, achievable plan to reduce Canada’s greenhouse gas emissions 20% by 2020 and cut air pollution in half by 2015. In this plan:

    * For the first time ever, industry will be forced by law to meet tough emission reduction targets; and
    National caps for industrial emissions of four air pollutants commonly associated with smog and acid rain will be introduced.

    *Created $2 billion ecoENERGY Initiative to promote smarter energy use, greater use of clean energy sources, and cleaner use of traditional energy sources. This program includes initiatives like:

    * Consumer oriented incentives like the ecoAUTO rebate for fuel efficient vehicles; and
    Grants to individuals and businesses to help them invest in energy and pollution-saving upgrades.

    * Created $1.5 billion trust for clean air and climate change in partnership with the provinces and territories. This includes strategic investments like:
    The development of an East-West electrical transmission interconnect between Manitoba and Ontario;
    Support for research and innovation for the reduction and sequestration of greenhouse gases; and
    Support for the development of a “hydrogen highway”, a network of hydrogen fuelling stations for fuel celled buses and vehicles, in British Columbia.

    *Created $300 million Chemicals Management Plan to regulate chemicals harmful to human health and the environment

    *Dedicated $2 billion over seven years for the production of renewable fuels

    *A $225 million investment to acquire and preserve ecologically sensitive lands

    All this without infringing on a company's name btw. :)
  13.  
    Posted By: JimmytufishAll this without infringing on a company's name btw. :)
    Geeze, ya make that sound like a bad thing Jimmy...
    Thankful People: Jimmytufish
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Jimmytufish</cite>Introduced a balanced, achievable plan to reduce Canada’s greenhouse gas emissions 20% by 2020 and cut air pollution in half by 2015.</blockquote><p>

    I think you forgot to add that the Conservative climate change plan won't actually kick in for years (final targets are set for 2050) and will allow for a significant increase in GHG emissions through the use of "intensity" targets. GHG emissions from the oilsands are predicted to increase three-fold by 2020, which is entirely acceptable under the Conservative plan. And it was roundly <a href=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070226/tories_climatechange_070226?s_name=&no_ads=>criticized</a> by people who know what they are talking about.<p>

    In other words, they've already failed. :)<p>

    Next.<p>

    <blockquote>*Created $2 billion ecoENERGY Initiative to promote smarter energy use, greater use of clean energy sources, and cleaner use of traditional energy sources.</blockquote><p>

    That sounds familiar. Really, really familiar in fact. I think - wait for it - it was a Liberal program that they cut and rebranded.<p>

    So how many of these initiatives were Liberal programs that were cut and then brought back under a different name?<p>

    <blockquote>Created $300 million Chemicals Management Plan to regulate chemicals harmful to human health and the environment</blockquote><p>

    That's about the only thing they deserve any credit for. But how will it affect climate change again?<p>

    <blockquote>Dedicated $2 billion over seven years for the production of renewable fuels</blockquote><p>

    So they're subsidizing the production of ethanol. Let's see, weren't there some problems with that? ;)
  15.  
    That's not a plan, that's rhetoric!
  16.  
    Posted By: benevolentspacemanThat's not a plan, that's rhetoric!
    Good for you...and all this time I thought that you were only an unemployeed PhD that didn't have a clue....You do have a clue afterall. :)
  17.  
    Please name one ORIGINAL political program. There is very little creativity in politics. Everyone puts their own spin on something and voila!
    Thankful People: Jimmytufish
  18.  
    Well someone originally thought of the eco-rebate program (I believe it was the liberals). The carbon tax is a original political program.....I believe if you looked there would be quite a few.
  19.  
    Posted By: grumpy old manPlease name one ORIGINAL political program. There is very little creativity in politics. Everyone puts their own spin on something and voila!
    Thankful People:Jimmytufish

    Name one original anything. You can't, because creativity is an evolutionary process! You build, bit by bit, on pre-existing stuff.
  20.  
    Carbon tax is so stupid. My doff of the hat to the people who sold this half baked theory to the whole world!

    Winnipeg warming up, and who is against that??

    Stupid politicians, wasting Billions of dollars, has the adscam smell all over it!

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