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Winnipeg City Issues & Urban Affairs: Fate of the Starland and Rex Theatres - Jack's and the Bell, too - Main Street

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      CommentAuthorslowdive101
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008 edited
     
    Is it too late for this building? Is all hope lost? Is the facade worth saving? The sign? Personally, I'd certainly rather see any new development on this block try to make use of existing buildings where possible (and at the very least the facades when little else is salvageable) than have everything torn down to make room for bigbox ticky tacky. On the other hand, I sometimes wonder if preserving facades is tacky. Is it a desperate and pathetic way of clinging to the past? Thoughts?
  2.  
    I'm on the fence for this one.

    I do believe that we should reuse existing structures (or facades) wherever possible/feasible.

    On the other hand, I'm not so sure the Starland facade is worth saving. I pass by it every day and think it's kind of ... ugly (historic value notwithstanding). Personal opinion, of course.
    •  
      CommentAuthorcancelbot
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    Moderator
    I'm not too bent out of shape about the Starland. I'm more concerned with multi-use (office, commercial, etc.) type buildings - those are gold and should be saved at every possible opportunity. This type of single-purpose building which is in terrible shape I am less concerned with saving.

    Preserving facades can work...I think the Red River College project on Princess is a decent example of it, but by and large facadism is a second-rate solution. It looks very "theme park".
    Thankful People: alex
  4.  
    Couldn't have said it better myself, CB!
  5.  
    Moderator
    I feel bad that the theatres are going down. I wish there was an attempt to incorporate them somehow. i think in the beginning there was talk of that. Especially considering the area is laying down root as an artists area with studios, co-ops , galleries and the like I assumed that at least one of the theatres would eventually become a gallery or performance space.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSputnik
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    cancelbotPreserving facades can work...I think the Red River College project on Princess is a decent example of it, but by and large facadism is a second-rate solution. It looks very "theme park".


    A+
  7.  
    Great article on the Rise And Sprawl blog on the subject.

    I understand that these buildings are in disrepair, and that they may not be the prettiest historic buildings in town. I guess I'd be happier if the new proposal wasn't the piece of poop that it is.
  8.  
    Moderator
    Posted By: slowdive101Great article on the Rise And Sprawl blog on the subject. I understand that these buildings are in disrepair, and that they may not be the prettiest historic buildings in town. I guess I'd be happier if the new proposal wasn't the piece of poop that it is.
    that makes it all the worst. To have them stand around this long with the possibility of using them again and then tearing them down for a suburban office building.
    •  
      CommentAuthorcherenkov
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    I am not sure this is the best location for the new office. The majority of these office workers will probably drive to work, park and go in the back door without ever setting foot on Main St. Instead, they could have stuck the new building on a parking lot somewhere between Graham and Broadway.

    I would prefer to see redevelopment that would integrate into the neighbourhood better and generate more sidewalk traffic.
    Thankful People: mrchristian
    •  
      CommentAuthorSputnik
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    This fiasco just leads me to believe that CenterVenture is nothing more than a real estate firm with little concern for the city and its health (especially in the core).
    Thankful People: pizzaman
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008 edited
     
    That's a bit harsh.

    Knowing what CentreVenture is capable of, I'd say this leads me to believe that the WRHA doesn't understand good planning and design nor does it get the importance of street-level interaction in regenerating neighbourhoods.

    CV can encourage all sorts of good planning and design, but the final say is up to the client. Blaming CentreVenture is - IMHO - wrong. They would have encouraged the WRHA to do it differently, so I think the real blame belongs with the WRHA - who approved the final design.

    •  
      CommentAuthorSputnik
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    I guess the proof will be in the pudding should CV use it in the future as an example of how they improved the core.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    Depends on how you define "improved". In strict economic terms, this would be an improvement. In more community-focused terms, it wouldn't necessarily be. How would you measure it?

    Regardless, I think CV has plenty on the go and will have an impact on the downtown.

  14.  
    Posted By: zanderThat's a bit harsh.

    Knowing what CentreVenture is capable of, I'd say this leads me to believe that the WRHA doesn't understand good planning and design nor does it get the importance of street-level interaction in regenerating neighbourhoods.

    CV can encourage all sorts of good planning and design, but the final say is up to the client. Blaming CentreVenture is - IMHO - wrong. They would have encouraged the WRHA to do it differently, so I think the real blame belongs with the WRHA - who approved the final design.

    I agree Zander. Was there any public discussion or is this design a fait accompli? I too believe street front design with retail outlets is absolutely the way to go.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzander
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    Posted By: grumpy old manI agree Zander. Was there any public discussion or is this design a fait accompli? I too believe street front design with retail outlets is absolutely the way to go.

    Good question, I didn't hear of any public discussion - maybe Mr Point or someone who lives in the area would know more?

    My sense is that the WRHA (or their architect) just put forward what they wanted and called it a done deal. I could be wrong though.

    • CommentAuthorfanman
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    Oh yes it is soooo important to save the urine and vomit soaked facades of those buildings, tear them all down and haul it away, shame you cant do the same with the scum hanging around there.
  17.  
    Moderator
    Who? The artists that live either above Norman's Meats and the White Rose Cafe ? The employees at the Tallest Poppy ? The customers at Mitchell Fabrics ? The architects at Higgins and Main ? The students at the Abo Centre ? What this area has been doing is creating a better mix of people that live, shop, eat and create art in this area. This will be one of the most important developments and you have to get it right or it will can stifle the change (ie City Hall, Concert Hall didn't provide much incentive to improve the area around it when they were built).

    You obviously haven't been there in a while.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMR_Point
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    the people that run the tallest poppy live 2 blocks over from me
    •  
      CommentAuthorcancelbot
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    Moderator
    Besides certain aspects of CV's plan that could be improved like the building massing, the exterior finish, etc., I am generally OK with CentreVenture's plan.

    However, I concede that the CV plan could probably be done better and more creatively...for instance, it may be possible to renovate the Starland for use by some other entity. A WRHA building could then go on the lot between the Starland and Jack's Place (assuming you tear down the Epic), although it would then have to be a bit taller as a result of the smaller floorplate. Of course, that leaves you with a vacant lot at Main and Logan, but that could be filled by Median Credit Union. I think the hard part will be finding a viable use for the old Starland, though.

    All this being said, I probably wouldn't shed any tears if they went ahead and built the CV plan as envisioned.
    •  
      CommentAuthorcancelbot
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2008
     
    Moderator
    Incidentally, does anyone know what kind of shape the Epic is in?

    I recall seeing some Starland pics on Flickr, and it is totally barren inside...it looks like an empty old warehouse inside. I know the Epic was used for "The Western Hour" up until the late 80s, so it might be in slightly better shape (despite the fact that it is rather homely looking from the outside). Anyone know?

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